Bitterness...

topic posted Sun, August 27, 2006 - 1:41 PM by  TMIbo
...is not a mood enhancer...for most human beings.
posted by:
TMIbo
  • Re: Bitterness...

    Sun, August 27, 2006 - 5:52 PM
    That's only true for men. Bitter women get lots of sympathy, but bitter men are less attractive than even serial rapists and murderers.
    • Re: Bitterness...

      Mon, August 28, 2006 - 6:18 PM
      And so you are saying that you do not sympathize with bitter guys, only bitter women?
      • Re: Bitterness...

        Mon, August 28, 2006 - 6:41 PM
        Society does not sympathize with bitter guys, but it does sympathize with bitter women.

        Otherwise Maureen Dowd wouldn't have a job.

        How many men do you know write books like "Are women necessary?" ?
        • Re: Bitterness...

          Mon, August 28, 2006 - 7:43 PM
          Are you implying that women somehow take advantage of their bitterness? Frankly, exploiting anyone who is bitter...or not bitter...is not nice.
          • Re: Bitterness...

            Mon, August 28, 2006 - 8:36 PM
            "Are you implying that women somehow take advantage of their bitterness?"

            No, I didn't say anything about exploiting. What I'm saying, in fact, does not have much at all to do with what women do, but rather how society responds.

            As I said, society allows women to be bitter... case in point, the whole "Are Men Necessary?" rant that became a book. Men aren't allowed to behave like that without some major repercussions.

            We hear "Men are dogs" "men are scum" all the time. Who in the world would get away with "women are xxx and yyy and zzz"? We all know how far that flew when Andrew Dice Clay tried it.
            • Re: Bitterness...

              Mon, August 28, 2006 - 11:12 PM
              Good point...I have NO PROBLEM with the "men are dogs" thing, because it exposes the truth about the ones that REALLY ARE DOGS...but it's frustrating to me how the same kinds of criticisms directed toward "dog" women are treated like the most POLITICALLY INCORRECT statements a person can make. Good reference to Andrew Dice Clay, by the way.
            • Re: Bitterness...

              Thu, November 2, 2006 - 2:12 PM
              "We hear "Men are dogs" "men are scum" all the time. Who in the world would get away with "women are xxx and yyy and zzz"? We all know how far that flew when Andrew Dice Clay tried it."

              You've got to be kidding... slurs against women happen on an incredibly frequent basis, even in calm everyday situations.

              -If a woman is in a bad mood or isn't as compliant as people around her would like, it's attributed to her PMSing and she's written off as a bitch. A man behaving the same way is merely called "aggressive" or "confident".

              -If a woman in a bar doesn't respond happily to a man's attempt to get into her pants, she's called "frigid". If she responds well, she's a slut. If she in fact initiates the situation because she finds him attractive, she's still a slut. Either way, the guy's still a stud.

              Hell, let's explore this "slut" thing a bit more: if a woman dresses provocatively, she's a slut. If she sleeps with anyone she's not currently in a long term relationship with, she's a slut. If she's in a long term relationship with someone who likes to swing and she decides to try it with him, she's a slut. If she's successful in a company where men in her department haven't been promoted much, she's obviously sleeping with someone (and therefore a slut).

              And if a man did any of those things in the same way, he'd be anything ranging from a hero (if he managed to find a girlfriend who liked swinging) to a go-getter (if he gets promoted).

              If you want to hear more slurs against women that are less situational, just turn on the radio or MTV: I dare you to find more than one song in an hour set that doesn't talk about women being bitches, hoes, homewreckers, sluts, etc. And it's not fair using the Disney station to do this, all you'll get there is insipid love songs sung by girls barely into puberty who have no idea what love even is yet. And once you've done that experiment, try to find an equal number of songs sung by women that deride men in the same way.

              Not convinced yet? Ok. Turn on the TV, flip around to some syndicated talk shows (think Howard Stern, not Jerry Springer) and watch them for a while. Howard Stern's an obvious example because he's turned deriding women into a career, but take a gander at Rush Limbaugh and even Bill O'Reilly... if you're lucky enough to see them have a woman either as a guest or a topic on the show, you'll see what I mean.

              Both sexes get bitter sometimes about the opposite sex, and neither of them should be making blanket statements about how much the other one sucks.
              • Re: Bitterness...

                Sun, November 5, 2006 - 2:48 PM
                GW, who are you directing your comments towards? It is not clear from the flow of this thread.
                • Re: Bitterness...

                  Mon, November 6, 2006 - 3:08 AM
                  Timbo, that's why I quoted what I was responding to :) The quote was from The L's comments.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Bitterness...

                    Thu, November 16, 2006 - 10:03 PM
                    Oh and I wanted to add one thing... those men you mentioned, aren't bitter... they're MEAN and PREDATORY. They're bone throwing apes and they come across as he-men. But they still do say some of the exact bigoted crap that I said they could never get away with, so you're right about that.
              • Re: Bitterness...

                Thu, November 16, 2006 - 9:51 PM
                I've rarely heard a guy saying a woman is PMSing and not getting savaged by other men in response.

                The same thing goes for women in bars; one man says she's frigid, and nine other men show their disapproval of her by trying to get with her to prove she's not frigid and that the guy who called her that, was just a beta male loser.

                And who cares any more if a woman is a "slut"? Guys will still marry her and sleep with her. Paris Hilton, anyone?

                As for Disney, Disney is far nastier about it than MTV. In home grown (as opposed to Japanese-imported) Disney movies, they almost INVARIABLY kill the mother to start off the story, or she's long dead already. There, I just gave ya some ammo. :)

                BTW how many lawsuits is O'Reilly up to nowadays? Yeah, those neo conservative men, not to mention the Man Show, are quite abusive to women, and that's part of what made me jump off the Republican train. They do get away with a lot, but you have to admit, they don't go around saying "women aren't necessary". And can you really call Stern & Limbaugh "men"? That hurts. :(
                • Re: Bitterness...

                  Thu, November 16, 2006 - 10:23 PM
                  >The same thing goes for women in bars; one man says she's frigid, and nine other men show their disapproval of her by trying to get with her >to prove she's not frigid and that the guy who called her that, was just a beta male loser.

                  Which one of the players in that scenario would you say you were, "The L"?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Bitterness...

                    Sat, December 30, 2006 - 6:53 AM
                    Both. It doesn't matter either way - the man is always the loser.
              • Re: Bitterness...

                Fri, January 5, 2007 - 8:14 AM
                <<<<<Both sexes get bitter sometimes about the opposite sex, and neither of them should be making blanket statements about how much the other one sucks.>>>>>

                Well said. Bitterness is just way toxic, and tends to make the bitter person not much fun to be around. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy.

                I think a bit less focus on the trials of one's own gender might make it easier to see that *both men and women* suffer from unfair stereotyping. Let's have a bit more compassion for the experiences of both, instead of dwelling only on our own baggage with respect to the opposite sex.
        • Re: Bitterness...

          Tue, November 28, 2006 - 1:04 PM
          You know, I can be credulous at times and I really must apologize to others for that in advance. Believe it or not, I did learn something from this thread. And that was...

          You know, "The L", rather than asking these questions in my thread, I would prefer that you start your own threads to discuss them...from now on. You seem to ask a lot of questions but then don't answer them yourself. Frankly, hostility as a general personality trait is not nice, mythical or otherwise. You also seem to have not been interested in having a discussion with me other than to make comments and questions that I personally do not agree with. I don't know how you perceive yourself but I perceive you as being angry about the people you encounter in your life. What I suggest is that you either 1) go to some other forum that you might find more helpful and/or that you 2) actually talk honestly about where you have formed your opinions from...you know, like actual, personal, experiences that caused you to ask the questions you did in this thread...rather than just asking more and more questions of a hostile tone.
          • Re: Bitterness...

            Sat, December 30, 2006 - 6:57 AM
            If all you wanted is for someone to agree with you and say "amen" then I doubt there is a forum in the world where you'll do well.

            And yes, I'm quite angry at the fact that someone can publish a giant bitter load of tripe like "Are Men Necessary?" but you'd NEVER see a book that asks "Are Women Necessary?" and that gets published. That's a solid example of how two-faced society's attitude about bitterness really is.
            • Re: Bitterness...

              Sat, December 30, 2006 - 3:34 PM
              "And yes, I'm quite angry at the fact that someone can publish a giant bitter load of tripe like "Are Men Necessary?" but you'd NEVER see a book that asks "Are Women Necessary?" and that gets published. That's a solid example of how two-faced society's attitude about bitterness really is."

              No it's not, it's a hypothetical example of how society views men versus women. I suggest you try publishing such a book or article, see how it actually gets received (instead of just assuming you already know), and then come back and join the discussion.

              Good luck!
              • Re: Bitterness...

                Sun, December 31, 2006 - 2:12 AM
                Well, considering that bitterness from one group gets consolation, coddling and so forth (to the point that indirect genocidal implications are accepted), while the exact same bitterness from another group gets condemnation...

                it might in fact be safe to say that bitterness is not universally condemned, and that the men / women analysis of the subject shows exactly where the case in point actually is.

                In short, I was pointing out that
                a) society's attitude towards bitterness is two faced; and
                b) an example of a)

                And no, I'm not going to publish some "Are Women Necessary?" tripe. The answer to that is obvious, and while I'll pursue male bashers to the ends of the earth, the rest of womankind doesn't deserve to also be punished. Unfortunately male bashers try to identify themselves as "all of womankind" but that's for another tribe.

                But for the sake of answering you as absolutely directly as anally retentively possible, I would be more than happy to place a bet with you on whether or not anyone who writes a book called "are women necessary?" will ever be published by any major institution. Since you feel my assumption is wrong, I'm willing to back up my POV with cash. I know such a book will not be published and I stand behind that.
                • Re: Bitterness...

                  Tue, January 2, 2007 - 2:55 PM
                  I still stick by the premise I started this thread with--that is: bitterness is not a mood enhancer. If you can't find yourself moving on from being bitter then, well, it seems to me that it is almost impossible to expect others to be happy about your being around, sticking around, you know, being bitter. If you want to have a discussion about how you might move on that doesn't put all the work on other folks then, yeah, maybe this forum is for you. However, if you can't figure out a way to move on from your emotional problems and want to put the work on everyone else, well, I submit to you that you will remain bitter...unless, of course, you somehow equate being bitter and angry and making other folks lives unhappy through your own laziness as somehow productive.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Bitterness...

                    Tue, January 2, 2007 - 9:55 PM
                    And I stick by my premise: I wish that "bitterness is not a mood enhancer" was applied universally.

                    I don't believe in putting all the work on others to get rid of one's bitterness.

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