i don't hate the whiny self proclaimed nice guy. but whiny is is annoying, and even if he isn't Not Nice, annoying isn't nice to be around. it's tiresome.

sorry but i personally have a low tolerance for that.

For those of you that don't know me, hiya....haven't posted in here awhile. :)

This is a conversation l have a lot with men, but l've been thinking about it some lately, and l believe l have a better grasp of it now...or at least l finally have the words to properly articulate what's in my head.

l don't think women are inherently turned off by expression of emotion. Not like we don't thrive on it ourselves, right. But there are two kinds of men in the expression department. There are those who do express themselves - and those who don't. The reasons why are many and obvious; men aren't exactly encouraged to do so in this society. As a result, the overall repression most men go through (both social and self imposed) not only limits their expression, but their ability to do so as effectively because they simply don't get as much practice at managing their emotions (whereas women often micromanage theirs because we never know when to shut up, lol!! All due respect, ladies). l don't mean this as insulting or condescending; l am simply stating cause and effect.

lf one is not encouraged to improve upon his articulation through life experience, as well as understand what is appropriate and when, when he finally DOES express it, it often just comes out ALL fucking wrong. He doesn't *mean* it the way it came out, but it is often interpreted that way (he's often not entirely sure where her particular reaction came from either - he THOUGHT he was making sense). And in quite a few cases, his need to express his feelings around the woman he loves can explode and make everything he's saying and doing look needy, whiny, weak, or any of those other things no sane human wants in a relationship. lt doesn't matter if he's come off this way one time or many by the time they break up; when she's no longer part of that relationship, she'll often end up looking for a guy at the extreme other end, who seems more 'manly' and doesn't express himself *quite* so much, and when you're looking for men who don't express themselves at all, what you get is a bunch of guys who don't know themselves, forgo loyalty and honesty for machismo, and are far more likely to end up shooting themselves in the foot in MAJOR ways at least once, if not repeatedly.....aka criminals, cheaters, self destructive druggies and men with violent tendencies. Or men who are just total tools and just barely fumble through society, forever trying to be what everyone else wants them to be, and never questioning why. Or (d) all of the above.

l don't believe there's a man or woman alive who hasn't emerged from one extreme relationship and into another in the opposite direction, and overshot in a big way, at least once in their lives. Women don't really like the seriously fucked up bad boys. Every woman likes a little daring, a little naughty, and little suspense and sexy; we don't like the abuse, the dismissal, the ignorance, the drama that comes with those other ones. Some women don't know anything else and repeatedly seek all that out, but that's a bit beside the point, though closely related to the problem as well.

Basically what l *am* saying is that in this case, men often relate in extreme ways, and the women respond in kind. ldeally, if both learned to be aware of their kneejerk reaction to turn tail and run from a relationship that might still be a happy and healthy given a minute, and to be aware of what they're saying, how, and in which scenario it's appropriate to do that, we might come closer to balancing somewhere in the middle, both personally and in our relations. lt beats the hell out of the extremes.

lt's all about communication, IMO.
Sorry so longwinded (l'm longwinded anyway, ha), but it helped me to process my thoughts by writing this out. Hope it made sense. :)