Yes, please, no rehash.
I gave up following this tribe because it just seemed like everyone had an axe to grind.
I still believe there are nice guys out there.
-L

Simon, I'd have to say that I support the first few moves you've done so far. Do you plan to change the tribe description at all?

I wonder why there is such duality surrounding the concept "nice?" On one hand, we're taught to "play nice" (as a positive), yet "being nice" is often equated with being a milquetoast.

How do we separate out "nice," meaning "compassionate, understanding and respectful" from the "nice" that's interpreted as "weak, opinionless and boring?"

I'm not a guy. But I caught this thread yesterday and saw a couple things I wanted to respond to.

I don't know what has been covered before, but I'm tossing this out, at "The L"

Nice girls are not perceived as positive. Not on Tribe.net anyway. Start window shopping in the photo galleries of tribes and in people's profiles and most of what you'll see are people that tend to appear to be of questionable moral character. Guys and gals. And apparently THAT is what people want.

Look at some of the major players in various tribes. It's not the nice people that are the popular people for the most part, is it? The nastier the person is, the more of a following they tend to get, eh? Why?

Want to know how much crap I get for being "nice"? I get more crap for being nice than the mean people get for being mean. And yes, I do want people to be less predatory and TRIED to do that in my last tribe. I had a mix of people there, and some people just couldn't hold back on the trolly stuff. There's plenty of places to be vicious alts, I wanted my tribe to be "nice".

The people that chose not to be nice were (and are) fully capable of being nice. I know, I'd talked to them before in PM. But it was like inviting a fox into a hen house and saying "be nice". I was so disappointed.

And Peter says:

"How do we separate out "nice," meaning "compassionate, understanding and respectful" from the "nice" that's interpreted as "weak, opinionless and boring?"

Well, I guess the best way would be to define ourselves. Or to define those words for ourselves. What is "boring"? I'd probably bore the socks off most people. I'm not an action figure. I don't mountain climb, I haven't invented anything, I mean, I'm just not into a lot of those things that other people do.

My advice continues to be that folks should do what pleases them and gives them fulfillment. If you are compassionate, then show that, in your life and do things that will allow you to use that part of you. It will necessarily put you in contact with other compassionate people.

Some folks would consider reading to be boring. I like reading. So, if I wanted to meet other people who enjoyed reading, I would not go to a motocross event, a strip bar with guys, or a gym. I'd go to libraries, public poetry readings, find book clubs online or in person. So I could be around people who enjoy what I enjoy. With the Internet, we should be able to find most anything in our own areas or can participate online. And choose to be around the kind of NICE that we happen to be.

I could go to a gal's group and we can reinforce each other's "niceness". LOL! For that matter, there could be mixed groups of "nice people" doing "nice things" nicely. Where nobody dresses like a street walker, where nobody swears all the time, and absolutely nobody crushes a beer can on their forehead. Or even a diet cola can on their forehead.

We have well-developed brains, but a lot of people don't use them. They revert to some kind of animalistic behaviour where men fight and women fight too. Not just some of the time, but all the time. No cooperation, always competition. Where viciousness rules and nice people are trampled. I think that sucks.

"Why are (self proclaimed or otherwise) nice guys almost universally looked at in the negative, while (self proclaimed or otherwise) nice girls aren't?"

-Neither of those statements is true.

1. Nice guys are not looked at negatively: passive-aggressive clingy whiny guys who call themselves "nice" are. No one was EVER dumped for being too nice, but they have been dumped for being submissive, codependent, jealous, and bland. Then they complain to the world that they were dumped for being "too nice", decide to be an asshole because "that's what girls apparently want", then get mad at having no success on that approach either and just get bitter. If more "nice" guys started seriously and honestly examining the reasons they have trouble dating, this whole "nice guy" stigma wouldn't even be an issue.

Case in point: there's a guy that comes into one of the bars I work at, and he sits and complains about the lack of available women constantly. Every time he finds someone he's attracted to, he never asks her out BUT reserves the right to bitch for a week if someone else asks her and she says yes. He complains about how he saw her first, that other guy's just going to break her heart, she's probably a slut anyway, yadda yadda. Then he perks up, notices there are women around him, starts trying to flirt, and wonders why they're not interested. And he blames it on the fact that he's a nice guy, every time.

2. "Nice" girls have the same stigma "nice" guys have, and for the same reasons. There is the added component that genuinely nice women also face dating trouble due to their views on sex and marriage, but that's true of everyone regardless fo what their views are: if you aren't dating someoen with the same views, you're going to have trouble.

"Why do serial killers get more female admirers than a "whiny" nice guy?"

-Wtf? Where are your stats on this?

1. Serial killers will always attract a certain psychlogically damaged contingent of groupies. People are weird.

2. "Whiny" people never have groupies because they are whiny. No whiny person in the history of the world has ever attracted a following, except maybe Rosanne and even that didn't last very long. Why is this even a question? Dear god.

Just a THEORY... hope it helps...
Poise, toughness, honesty, and NEVER ROLL OVER AND PLAY DEAD....
Here's an obscure quote that I think might help out:
"STRENGTH alone knows CONFLICT;
WEAKNESS is below even DEFEAT and is born VANQUISHED."
Translation...even if a situation beats/gets the better of you, it hurts more
NOT do make a stand than it does to make an UNSUCCESSFUL one...
People ALWAYS take notice when you behave from a place of SELF RESPECT...
afterwards, the situation can be made "NICE" again...